35: Rethinking Sustainable Fashion, Consumption, and Personal Style with Sabs Katz

This episode touches on sustainable fashion — but it’s not only about fashion.

It’s a conversation about how we think about clothes, how we relate to what we already own, and how everyday decisions around getting dressed connect to consumption, care, and creativity.

I’m joined by Sabs Katz, the creator of Sustainable Sabs and a cofounder of Intersectional Environmentalist, for a thoughtful, wide-ranging conversation about personal style, overconsumption, and what it looks like to slow down without turning sustainability into a rulebook.

We talk about clothing as memory and legacy, why reducing consumption matters more than chasing “better” products, and how practices like mending, swaps, and intentional limits can actually make style clearer — not more restrictive.

This episode is for anyone who wears clothes — which is all of us.

Takeaways

• Why fashion can be such a complicated entry point into sustainability
• What “sustainable fashion” can look like in real life
• Clothing as memory, inheritance, and care
• Reducing consumption without rigidity
• Mending, swaps, and community-based alternatives
• Finding creativity outside of constant trends
• Some excellent challenges to curb your consumption and recharge your creativity

One Small Shift
Pause before buying something new. Save it, sit with it, and see how you feel about it a week later.

Connect With Sabs

Instagram

Website

Substack

Resources

Intersectional Environmentalist

Indyx

Hot or Cool Institute

Drive to Target - poems by Hayley DeRoche

Pattie Gonia

How to Host a Clothing Swap (blog post)

Transcript

Getting dressed is one of the most ordinary things that we do. But I haven't talked much about sustainable fashion on this podcast, mostly because I'm not very fashionable, but clothes are something we have to think about every day. Who made them, where we buy them, how we care for them, what we keep and what we let go of. Today's episode is about slowing that down one garment at a time.

Welcome to Sustainable in the Suburbs, a podcast for the eco-curious who want to live a greener life and are looking for a place to start. I'm your host, Sarah Robertson Barnes, a soccer mom with a station wagon and a passion for sustainable living. Each week, I'll bring you practical tips and honest conversations to help you waste less, save money, and make small, doable shifts that actually fit your real life. Because sustainable living doesn't have to be perfect to matter, and you don't have to do it all to make a difference.

Hello and welcome back to Sustainable in the Suburbs, the podcast where we start where we are, use what we have and live a little greener, one small shift at a time. My name is Sarah Robertson Barnes and I'm really glad to be spending some time with you today. This show is made possible by listeners like you. So if you've been enjoying the podcast, one of the best ways to support it is to share an episode with your networks as that really helps new people find the show.

You can also leave a quick rating or review wherever you're listening today, or click support the show down in the show notes. And if you head over to sustainable in the suburbs.com slash podcast, you'll find the show notes for every episode, as well as a place to suggest topics or guests that you'd love to hear from in future episodes. Today's episode is actually about something that I haven't touched on yet in the podcast, and that's fashion.

Part of the reason I've avoided it is pretty simple. I am not particularly fashionable. And so this has never been a space where I feel especially confident or fluent. And if conversations about clothing and sustainability ever feel overwhelming or intimidating, or like you're supposed to know all the quote, right answers, then this episode is for you. So this conversation isn't about trends or shopping or getting it right, being perfect. It's about

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (02:15.576)
close and how much we end up carrying around in them. What we keep, what we keep buying over and over, what we love, what we wear, what we buy and stop buying and how all of that connects to bigger questions about consumption and care and the systems that we're moving through every day. So this felt like the perfect conversation to have with my guest today, Sabs Katz. Sabs is the creator behind Sustainable Sabs.

a platform focused on combating over consumption and promoting climate justice through slow fashion, veganism, wellness, and a lot more. She's also a co-founder of Intersectional Environmentalist, an eco-media organization centered on arts, education, and storytelling. As a sustainability communications expert, SABs works with brands and organizations on social media strategy and writing. And when she's not doing that,

you will usually find her at her favorite Brooklyn farmers market. This conversation touches on sustainable fashion. Yeah, but it's not only about fashion. It's also about how we think about clothes and how we relate to what we already own and how memory and creativity and restraint and care really do show up in our ordinary decisions. So honestly, this episode is for anyone who wears clothes, which is all of us.

So here's my conversation with Saps.

Hey, Sabs, welcome to the show. I am so glad to have you here with us today. Thanks for having me. So excited to be here. I've been wanting to have you on for a while. I think I told you right when I was going to launch the podcast, I wanted to have you on partly, mostly because of your work, but also because you are my dear friend who inspires me and whose work helps to fuel my own. And I mentioned this to you in a DM the other day that even though we're not

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (04:12.046)
close in age and live very different lives. Like you're in New York and I'm in the suburbs with my kids and just different stages of life and all that. We're just really aligned in values and the kinds of questions we're asking about consumption and care. And you were like, you know what girl, we're not that different. Truly. If you really like dive into the soul, into our souls, I feel like they're very aligned. Yeah. And that's what I think is really important, especially right now.

with the state of the world is that we are more alike than we think when we're focused on, you know, arriving at the same destination in the way that our feet want to carry us there. So for folks who don't know you and are just meeting you, can you share a little bit about who you are and what you do through Sustainable Sabs? Hi everyone. My name is Sabs. I use she her pronouns. I am the creator of a platform called Sustainable Sabs.

where I try to empower positive climate action through slow fashion, veganism, reduced consumption, wellness, and more. I also co-founded a climate justice nonprofit called Intersectional Environmentalist, which is focused on art, education, and storytelling. And more recently, I've just been focusing on my work as a sustainability communications expert and consulting with some cool clients on their content.

I love the term sustainability communicator. might have to nab that one. A friend a couple of years back was saying you should really position yourself as a sustainability communications expert. And I was like, you know what? I will take that. You literally are though. You went to school for communications, right? I did. Yeah. For advertising. It wasn't with the sustainability focus, but I definitely intended once I graduated to go into more mission driven.

companies, nonprofits, that kind of stuff, because the idea of just selling Barbies and tampons as exciting as it may be really just was not necessarily the work that I felt was aligned with my life goals. Not called to it. Sure. Yeah. So what, what initially pulled you into sustainability and climate justice more broadly? Yeah. So, I mean, from the sustainability perspective, I was initially drawn in.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (06:40.27)
through the Zero Waste movement. And just prior to that, I also went vegan. So it felt already like there was some alignment in terms of sustainability. And through learning more about Zero Waste, I started my platform and connected with other folks online. And as I continued on this journey of reducing my consumption, my waste, and just learning how to be a better steward for the planet, you kind of

after a while, realize that sustainability is more than just recycling and it's more than just plastic. And I think there are some people who are comfortable just staying in that space, which like, that's all you, if that's all you want to do, then like power to you. But as somebody who kind of wants to grow my work and like always aims to have some level of self-improvement and just like,

In an effort to support the movement at large, you kind of just have to realize that sustainability is bigger than the plastic. It's about climate justice and racial justice and reproductive justice and all of these other things that are so deeply interconnected that you can't really talk about sustainability without talking about how it connects to so many of these other injustices throughout the world. And the idea of only

perceiving sustainability in such a vacuum really does a disservice to the fact that we all really need to work together. You don't need to be siloing ourselves in these conversations. And because it touches everything, that means we can all find our way into the work. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's kind of the beauty of it is you find what you care about. So maybe you care about.

maybe you really care about food, maybe you are, you know, really into supporting small businesses or whatever it is. There is a way that that connects to sustainability and to environmentalism. And once you get really good at supporting one component, then it becomes all the easier or all the more easy to sort of dive in and find other ways to connect that back to the things that you care about. Yeah.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (09:03.34)
You have to learn how to knit a couple stitches before you're busting out a full sweater. Totally. That's totally my wheelhouse. I love that. Yeah. And you talk a lot about fashion in your work. So how did that become such a central part of the way that you communicate these ideas? Yeah. mean, growing up, I remember visiting my grandparents in Paris and my grandmother, bless her heart.

never got rid of any of the clothing that she and my mom and my aunt and uncle had growing up. And she worked in a lot of fashion stores as well throughout her, I guess, working years. And she just had so much clothing and so much beautiful clothing, which I'm so grateful that I have been able to inherit in my closet. And I think around the time that I first started

sort of receiving some of her pieces. I was around 15 or 16. And it really, one, made me very excited about vintage fashion and like understanding the history of fashion, but also as my appreciation for style grew, which, you know, again, didn't necessarily start from a perspective of sustainability. It just started from creativity and like wanting to express myself.

I kind of was able to draw more connections to the world of sustainability, such that when I first started my zero waste lifestyle or whatever, it felt like after I had sort of nailed the zero waste habits, sustainable fashion felt like the first introduction.

or at least the first meaningful introduction into climate justice. Because when you look at the world of sustainable fashion, it's not just organic cotton. It's not just non-toxic dyes. It's not just, you know, sustainably sourcing materials. There are people involved and there are so many people involved in the fashion industry all around the world. And the people who are actually making the clothing, who work day in and day out.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (11:26.732)
are not getting the, you know, support, the compensation, the humanity. Exactly. And it's so unethical that that really felt like a shift in my activism in terms of broadening my work to be focused from just zero waste to climate justice, because those two components of

the materials and also the human aspect really cements the connection between climate and social justice issues. so, and so for me, what feels important and why sustainable fashion feels like something that's such a passion of mine is one, obviously love to be creative, but two, it feels like

a really approachable introduction and at least a first step into the world of climate justice. Especially if you're somewhat new to this. So many people already love fashion and care about fashion and style. And so once you sort of like start to dive into it a little bit and learn about all of the industry waste in the fashion industry, learn about like the human rights violations in the fashion industry.

It becomes that introductory point. And once people start to learn that, hopefully it gets them aware of so many of these other issues that are also deeply connected to climate justice. And fashion is something we do all have to engage with. Whether we think about that or not, we all have to wear clothes. But what sustainable fashion actually means can feel really murky. Like for some people, it's about buying ethical brands or it's about thrifting or wearing what you already have.

or opting out of trends altogether. That's more my black t-shirt and jeans kind of a vibe. And then there's like cost and access and style and identity. It's really everything all together. And I think that's why it's so tricky to talk about even for people who do care deeply about sustainability. And that's one of the reasons that I wanted to have you on because your approach feels very grounded and very real. Like it's not about a single definition or

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (13:52.158)
perfection, but there's a lot of clarity and intention. So before we really dive in, what does sustainable fashion mean? To me, it feels like an intentional approach to style and fashion and the clothing that you wear. Because again, there's so many things under that umbrella of sustainable when it comes to sustainable fashion, like you just said.

that it doesn't necessarily look like one specific thing. Sure, there are certain components like using natural materials and ensuring that people are paid fair wages, but it's you know, reducing consumption overall. It's just being mindful, even just having the awareness of stepping into a fast fashion store and looking around and being like, wow, I wonder where all of these clothing items are going to end up in one year.

And just having that forethought, think also supports a sustainable fashion mindset because it really has to be a habit shift when we start adopting these practices rather than completely changing any fast fashion purchase for an ethical fashion purchase because the habit is the problem. This is the story of me and thrifting. When I just started switching over to thrifting, which was pretty early, like in my early twenties, which was in

late 1990s, but I started thrifting a lot more, but I was still buying just as much. Like it's better because I'm buying something that already exists and reducing demand and all of that, but I hadn't actually addressed the habit. I'm glad that you said that. Yeah. And honestly, I feel like people get intimidated by the idea of ethical and sustainable fashion because so much of the narrative is just like a $300, a hundred percent organic cotton t-shirt. And it doesn't

have to be that it really can just be not buying as much clothing. And when we reduce our clothing consumption overall, that's actually one of the most sustainable things that you can do is just overall reducing your consumption. Because there's no such thing as a perfectly sustainable piece of clothing. does not exist. What it is, is the one that's already in your closet. Bingo.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (16:15.424)
Yeah, exactly. And I find that when I basically stopped purchasing clothing, now I'm in a phase where I'm just like over it and I don't care. And I just wear like the same gray sweatshirt and leggings every single day, which is also fine. That's the season that I'm in. But I have found, especially watching you, that the fewer things you buy, the more creative you have become in putting your outfits together.

there was, it seems like there was this shift for you when buying clothes stopped being neutral, but how did your personal style evolve alongside that? Like did your values start shaping what you wore? Did it happen the other way around? A little mix? I will say when maybe like eight or so years ago or nine years ago, right around the time when I first started my zero waste journey, I actually did a sustainable fashion challenge for myself. And I love

I love a challenge. I'm a Capricorn. So I will adopt, you know, challenges every so often just to sort of gamify my life. And I did this challenge where I only wore six items of clothing over the course of six weeks. And this was just like, you know, shirts, pants, dresses, stuff like that. didn't include outerwear or shoes or like athletic clothing. And

It really was an interesting experiment because first of all, nobody noticed. And if they did, then they didn't say anything and also who cares? But I did this back in college and it felt like such a time when you really learn a lot about yourself and you learn a lot about the world. And just being able to practice that level of minimalism was really interesting and also just a good practice and being creative because creativity happens.

under constraints. I feel like my most creative outfits or work, whatever it is happens when I have parameters around it. And I think also it connects back to this idea of decision fatigue. We make so many decisions. I'm tired of making so many decisions. I don't want make dinner ever again. Exactly.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (18:40.808)
we're so used to having closets full of clothing and nothing to wear. Why is that the case? Like it really shouldn't be that way. And I we can all identify with that. I have nothing to wear and we're bursting at the seams. doesn't compute. Yeah, absolutely. And like, you know, there are these stats that say you wear 20 % of your clothing, 80 % of the time. So there's a, there was a way for me to

turn that 20 % into the majority of my closet. Like it only makes sense. And also why would I waste money on shit that I don't even wear? That's so silly to me. Yeah. We spend so much money on stuff we do not use. Exactly. It's just landfill corn. That and like, if I'm going to spend money that goes to waste, I would rather actually spend it on a

garment that I know that I'm really going to love and wear a ton. We're going to talk about the green skirt of yours that I'm obsessed with a little bit later. I'm also obsessed. One of the places that I noticed big time your connection between lived experience and fashion is how you talk about your grandmother's pieces.

whether it's clothing or jewelry that have been passed down to you, you've written so beautifully on your sub stack, which everyone should subscribe to, about wearing these pieces, just in your everyday life, not your life is the special occasion. And that just feels like such a different way of relating to clothing, like not as something that's just disposable or I'll just donate it, but something that carries memory and continuity. So can you tell us about some of your favorite pieces?

and what those hold for you. Well, I'll talk about the one that I'm wearing, one that I'm wearing right now, which is this gold necklace. It's a chain that I wear every day. I've been wearing it every single day for maybe four or five years. This was my grandmother's, my grandma Belle, who just passed away a couple of months ago. And, and it came with a pendant that I don't love the pendant, but I love the idea of having like

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (20:53.858)
just wearing a nice gold chain every day. And I wear it, I get so many compliments on it, but also just the idea of, you know, having this piece that was handed down to me from my family and having it just like add some brightness to anything that I wear and have it sort of become a signature feels really special. And I don't want to take it for granted.

because I know there's only so many pieces that, you know, a grandparent will hand down to their grandchild. And, you know, in my case, especially. So this one definitely feels like a favorite vintage piece in terms of, trying to think for my other grandmother. I have this black sweater. I feel like most of the pieces that I have from my grandmother's clothing versus my other grandmother's jewelry.

so my friend's grandmother, her name is Gigi. She's the one who had the house full of clothes. like I said, I have this black sweater that's pretty simple, but it has some interesting textural components. So there are some like beads, sewn on in different spots. There's like a couple of pieces of ribbon. There's like some texture underneath, like some of the bits. So it makes like these interesting shades and it's super subtle.

But it's one sweater that I have worn so much because I'm not the type of person who wears a ton of pattern, which I've noticed, or which I've realized about myself through my style journey. But I do find texture to be very interesting and adds a lot of intention and uniqueness to an outfit. And so I feel like that sweater felt like the first piece where I really

sort of learned that about myself and being able to appreciate those like simple additions that really elevated a sweater from just being something boring to being something unique and interesting has been very special. those two feel like in terms of hand-me-downs feel like some favorite pieces. And then just in terms of ethical fashion, my, I have this pair of sunglasses and this like beaded chain.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (23:19.98)
that I wear all the time. signature stabs. Yes. And it's again, a texture component. It's such an interesting piece. And I have gotten so many comments from people who are like hating for no reason. They're like, you're wearing it wrong. Right. But also literally all fashion is made up. Yeah. All of this, all of this that we are currently experiencing made up. So

let me just live my life. But I've also gotten so many compliments on it. So I feel like pieces like that have just felt like very signature to me and feel very special in a lot of different ways. you think that that sense of reverence has changed how long you keep other things or how you care for what you already own? Yeah, absolutely. No, I am very much

I think this last year, 2025 was the year of me really investing in the clothing that I already have. So whether that is polishing my leather belts or polishing silver bracelets or sort of upcycling different pieces so that I can wear them in different and unique ways. Again, there's that like constraint from creativity, but also

like gives me such an appreciation for the longevity of some of these garments because nowadays clothing is made and it lasts three wears. And so if I can invest a little bit of time instead of spending money on buying something new, if I can invest some time into sewing up some holes and another turtleneck from my grandmother or, you know, reinforcing a button on that green skirt.

I'm going to spend the time to do it because if I already love something and I want to keep something as part of my wardrobe as long as possible, you're going to want to put that love in. Mending is really good for the soul. I will say that. And I know how to do, I know how to knit. I'll say that, which is a totally different thing to garment construction. My mending is fairly atrocious, but that's why visible mending.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (25:38.598)
is phenomenal because I like that it looks like I mended it. Again, it shows that I made that investment. recently had someone say to me like, you mend your sheets. Like, do you not? Yeah. I'm quite happy to do that. I'd rather spend, if I'm just sitting there watching TV, then I'm going to darn that sock. Darn it. When you're wearing pieces with history or

You're where you're at now with extending the longevity of your clothing. How does that shape the way you think about adding something new? I think there are certain closet staple pieces that I had that I know I love and I want to keep wearing as long as possible. And usually that ends up being pants and skirts because tops

you know, you can just find all the time. There are so many of them, but finding a really good pair of pants or a really good skirt that's going to last you a long time feels like more of a more difficult. And therefore I want to ensure that those last as long as possible. I then sort of build the rest of my clothing around what I know will go well with these pieces. For the most part, my closet,

can go with everything else. wear a lot of neutrals, but for example, I just bought this turtleneck or I guess this mock neck and I knew that it was going to go well with this brown vest that I just bought. so, and I knew that that was going to go well with the green skirt and I knew it was going to go well with my Elena Cohn pants and all of these other things. So,

It really, I have no desire to buy things that I can't envision three or four outfits with it. I have to- 30 wears. Exactly. Do you do that, the 30 wears thing? I don't, but I have a, I have digitized my closet through this app called index, not sponsored, but you basically upload all of your clothing items, your jewelry, whatever you want to add. And

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (27:57.198)
it will start to tell you your cost per wear if you put in how much it costs to get the garment. so at this point, you know, I've had that, I only started using it back in February or March, I think, but that skirt already is down to like $3 a wear and it costs like almost $300. So- It's the best skirt that's ever been made though. I think about it in my life.

And I've looked at it and I visited and everything because it's again, it's something that I just have difficulty pulling the trigger on things like that again, because I rarely leave my home. I'm like, where am I going in this? I think that's part of it too, right? Is how the clothing is going to actually fit into your actual life. Yeah. No, absolutely. you know, I live in New York, so everybody's dressed up and I have a reason to.

feel motivated to dress up. But when I'm home in Houston visiting my family, I have like two outfits that I wear outside. When I'm home, I'm in my linen pants. I'm in my sweater. I'm in my t-shirt from that run that I went on back in high school. But I mean, the way that I like to live my life and also something that I heard a lot growing up from my family was

It's not a fashion show. Why are you all dressed up? And that is the real test of somebody who is into fashion because also, yeah, you can wear whatever the fuck you want through the grocery store. You can look super cute at the grocery store. you know what? Everybody's going to be jealous. And you don't have to. You definitely don't have to.

We're not noticing. People aren't thinking about us as much as we think they are. So why not look and feel cute? Exactly. And I think it also ties back to the idea of intention, like adding intention to your wardrobe and to your life. You don't have to wait for some ball to You can use the fancy china to just have tea. It's fine. Exactly. And I think stuff like that makes life more fun because I, you know, everything sucks.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (30:11.34)
And everything is sad and scary. And so if we can add those little whimsical, joyous moments into our day-to-day life, I think it will make life a lot more fun. Yeah. I'm just going to make myself a nice cup of tea and my grandmother's china that she gave me before she passed. And I do have it on display in a cabinet with all my yarn. It's just, that's one of my things. But yes, it's just there for me to look at.

which is silly because it's beautiful. And instead of drinking out of my whatever chipped mug from university, I could just be having it. And both are fine. There's an occasion for both, but there's no reason to save it for a special occasion. Yeah. Have a little tea, have a little solo tea party. Especially when like one of my core tenants of this show is use what you have. Yeah. Oh my gosh. And like building in that pause before we buy something new. And so

Like when I look at your work, it feels like we're circling the same idea. just sort of express it in a different way. So let's talk about that a little bit more because like what you were saying, the constraints feel like, no, I don't. It feels hard, right? Like it feels limiting, but especially when trends move so quickly, like micro trans or like a week, I don't even know anymore. Like I, even if I go shopping, I don't even know what I'm looking at. So it just.

The way that you talk about the constraints, feels like it's really helped you understand your style more clearly. And I'm still working on this for myself. So I know you have different ways of putting boundaries around your consumption. And you talked about the six item thing, but can you walk us through a couple of those? I know there's, there's spending pending, which I'm obsessed with and your five new items. So I have.

I feel like I have been experimenting with adding some of these boundaries for the last couple of years, or I would even say like maybe the last four or five years, just starting off with no buy months. And then I would do like a no buy quarter and doing that really forces you want to just like focus on what you already currently have, but also you get creative with other options. So.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (32:28.244)
Maybe you end up at a clothing swap and like, if you really need something, you find something new, but you don't have to buy it, which is great. Or, you know, you find a piece that you love or a piece that has been waiting to be repaired for a long time. And then you finally repair it. And then you have like six new outfits that you can wear with this one piece that you repaired. I think again, it really forces you to get creative and not sort of focus on lack because we focus.

Yeah, absolutely. Because when we focus on that, it just becomes the main narrative. Whereas if we're giving ourselves those restraints or those challenges, which I like to pose them as challenges because then at the end I like win or whatever, or, you know, it just ends up being more, more fun than like a like, you can't do this, that or the other.

I think it's just a good practice in general to work on some of those things. But the way that those have evolved for me is because I practiced those like one month or three months, no, no buy challenges. set me up for these like a year long challenges where I only will buy five new items of clothing. It doesn't include thrifted items, but I'm also not like going wild at the thrift store. think maybe I'll buy, I'll thrift like one thing a month.

I've also reigned myself in. The people to know I've gotten that under control. But the reason I'm doing this five items challenge and 2026 will actually be the third year that I'm doing it. I started in 2024. The reason it's five items is because there was this report that came out a couple of years ago by the Hot or Cool Institute, which is a think tank based in Berlin. And they looked at the state of fashion and determined that

On average, if we want to live in alignment with the 1.5 degrees Celsius warming goal set out by the IPCC report, we should only be buying about five new clothing items a year, which, you know, people will buy double that in one single shopping trip. it's so normalized. And hall culture. Hall culture. It's genuinely- Lantilcore. I saw someone call it that and I've never thought about it differently since then. So correct.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (34:52.525)
So correct. have a thing where I can't even type the word landfill. My brain types land full. Oh my God. Cause the letters are right beside. Like I also can't type reusable. That's a whole other thing, but I will always type landfall. And now I'm just like, I'm just going with it. Yeah. No, that's so real. Yeah. But I, I was so tired of one fashion influencers.

It's a no for me. Who are just constantly buying stuff. know I'm technically like quote unquote a fashion influencer, but I'm like, I need to see more people doing this. And I am frustrated with the landscape and I hate that people are just making this so normal. And so I, again, with the practice that I'd already had, I was like, let me do this year long challenge because I think I can do it.

five new items still feels approachable as opposed to just like a no new things full year. Cause sometimes, you know, you do find something that you really need. And so I wanted to give myself some flexibility. also within this challenge, the five items includes gifted items from brands. So I'm not like going out and buying my five items and then receiving like a new clothing item from a brand every single month. It's included. And

I just want people to see that this is something every, this is something pretty much anyone can do. And regardless of whether you would consider, somebody might consider themselves like super fashionable or not. We don't need as much stuff as we do, as we think we do. And so I hope that by continuing these challenges and encouraging people to just at the very least be aware of their consumption habits, we can just

build a better sustainable, or build a better fashion landscape that doesn't normalize just horrendous amounts of overconsumption. Yeah. We have so much buying power, so much power to shift the landscape. you said, move to five new items, even if you're going down to five new items a month, if that's not your baseline. There's so many ways to approach it, but what do think people get wrong about

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (37:18.176)
sustainable fashion, especially like maybe the idea that it's too expensive or beige or what have you. Yeah. I mean, I think I'm trying to think of one thing. I think what a lot of people might get wrong is again, the idea of just switching over their fast fashion purchases and purchasing sustainable fashion in place of it.

Because the problem isn't the organic cotton. The problem is the fact that we're buying more shit than we need. And so if more people want to adopt sustainable fashion practices, stop shopping. That is like the number one. And rather than like, yes, I think there is the accessibility and the cost component and also like the lack of size inclusivity, which I could, you know, go down a rabbit hole, but

overall reducing our consumption habits and our spending habits is going to be the most sustainable thing that we can do. And I think people think that they are not able to opt into sustainable fashion because of all of those restraints, but anybody can shop less. Anybody can opt out. Yeah, exactly. And so I hope more people can understand that opting out.

is a really important and powerful choice versus thinking, well, can't opt, I can't join this space because it's not within my budget at the moment, which is valid. But of course there are options. So, and like we both spend a not insignificant amount of time on Instagram where there's just an avalanche of content all the time, like constant newness.

like in addition to like all the hellscape-ness, but there's just like, yeah, it's just don't forget to buy drive to Target. I didn't know that poem from official sad beige. Oh my gosh. I'm going to like that. wait, which one? I can't remember what it's called, but she does drive to Target, drive to Target. Oh, okay. It's phenomenal. I've seen it. Yeah. I'll link it for everybody down in the show notes. should all know Haley's poems, but anyhow, it's just, that's on a loop in my head and we don't even have Target, but anyway.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (39:44.994)
The way that shopping is so baked in to our lives, think it's really difficult for it, like opt out, but isn't there something I can buy instead that will make me more sustainable? rather than positioning yourself against all of that, you've taken a real, like pretty intentional approach to how you show up within it. So like, how do you navigate that tension between sharing outfits without feeding into the pressure to consume? I feel like because I've spent so long practicing,

reducing my consumption, the pressure is not as strong as it used to be for me because I, growing up, I would go shopping all the time. Like anytime I had extra money, I would go to the mall. Shout out to the Galleria in Houston. But it, because of all of the, again, new practices and approaches that I have adopted towards fashion.

I don't necessarily always see something that somebody's wearing and immediately be like, I need to buy it. If I do see something that I really liked, there are so many different things that I would do before I immediately purchase because I think that sense of urgency gets people a lot. But for me, if I see something that somebody is wearing and I really like it, I'll either save the item in Instagram. Like you go to like the

the shops page and like you can save the individual item or I will like spend time thinking about it. There's almost never a case where I see something and I immediately buy it. Every purchase that I make, I take time to reflect on what are three or four different outfits I can wear this with. Can this reasonably fit into my life? Are there like garment care issues that might prevent me from wearing this?

clothing more often than I ideally would like to. Is the material something that I'm going to enjoy wearing? Sometimes there's like a wool sweater that's questionably itchy that I won't necessarily want to buy. I think having gotten into the mindset, I don't feel as much pressure to be buying. So something else that I really appreciate about your work and what you communicate is that this doesn't stop at individual choices.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (42:08.886)
It just keeps opening outward from how you think about your own wardrobe, but also into how people are gathering and share skills and support each other around clothing. And I think that feels really important because so much of what we are up against right now can feel isolating and is meant to be isolating and leaves us to try to navigate it alone. And that sucks. what we need is community. So you've been really involved in community events lately.

clothing swaps and mending circles and what draws you to those kinds of spaces and what do you get out of it? Yeah, I mean the selfish part of me wants more clothes and wants an excuse to get to that mending pile. But it's it's beyond that right with clothing swaps. It's such a fun opportunity to get to meet people, especially if you're doing

one that's not just in your home with your friends, which clothing swaps are so fun. And honestly, everybody who is there is always such interesting people. And you know, if you get to leave with a piece that you add to your wardrobe, then fuck yeah. Like that's great. And it just feels like an added bonus, but being able to connect with other people who also care about fashion and sustainability and seeing the ways that people show up and just.

You know, having nice conversations with your neighbors feels special. know. And we're, we're moving into a world that stuff like that is being reduced significantly. Like I, one like super random thing I always try to do is anytime I see one of my building neighbors and the apartment building, we're just like, whatever, walking up or down the stairs, I always say hello and introduce myself if I haven't already because

Human connection is so important. And we live this close to each other. Exactly. so clothing swabs, mending circles, all just like opportunities for you to like sit and exist and like have nice conversations with people. And worse comes to worse, you are no longer burdened by these clothes that you needed to, you know, give away anyways. And you have a piece of clothing that you have repaired that you had been meaning to repair.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (44:35.404)
Yeah. One thing I noticed about when I started going to clothing swaps and it was that it made it easier for me to let go of things that I thought were like, quote, too good to donate or things that I had sunk cost into like, but I spent X amount on this. Like I really should like lose weight and try to fit into it again or whatever. But knowing that it's, I don't know, it's just a different way of looking at what is truly an inanimate object.

but bringing it into a community space, thinking like, somebody is really going to like this. Like I would be so jazzed to find, so I don't know. It's just like a vibe thing. It's a really cool way to like, I don't know, we're like sharing it. And it's going to like a real tangible person that you are going to speak to and talk to. And some of the swaps that I've gone to, like we try things on and show each other. And I don't know these people, but it ends up being like a blast. And I feel good.

about contributing to that. I don't know, it's just become something that we can share rather than just like dealing with it privately. Yeah. That and also like, you know, so often with donating people will just like donate and they'll bring a bag close to a garbage bag. That says so much. But with, you know, a clothing swab, yes, it's great to have to end up with your own pieces that you take home, but

The level of pride and ego I see from somebody taking one of the items that I had brought to the clothing swap, unmatched. Yeah. Unmatched. I'm like, you're going to look so cute in that. Yeah. Send me a picture. know you're going to rock it. You just feel so glad that something has been.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (46:24.249)
I have something that's perfectly good and usable in my home that I am simply not using. And when it gets snapped up in three minutes in my local buy nothing group, it's the same feeling. I'm like, yes, somebody legitimately wants this and it's going to go to use rather than setting it out at the curb with like a wish and a prayer or dumping it at the donation center. It's just a more,

of keeping items in use and out of the landfill. it, because we are like weirdly emotional about our stuff. And so rather than disengaging with it, I love that idea of my grandmother called it, gifting with a warm hand. Yeah. love that. also just like putting a face to, you know, to who is receiving your item. And it's nice to sort of like envision a future life.

that that will, that item or that clothing, that garment will continue to have. And it's like, oh, okay. I met this person, I know that they're going to take care of it. Yeah. You like actually met a neighbor, whether you see them ever again or not. Like that community aspect is so important. So, so, okay. So got to bring this in for landing. So before we wrap up, there's just one more part of you that I want to touch on because it also connects really closely with everything we've talking about today.

And that is that you are vegan. And every time we meet up, we go for the best food. I just appreciate how that shows up in the same thoughtful way as your approach to clothing. So like thinking about impact and making choices in imperfect systems and trade-offs and holding true to your values. And it's just another place where like values meet practicality. So you've shared before about how you're comfortable wearing secondhand leather.

or wool. And can you talk about a little bit about how you kind of think through those choices? You know, there is no such thing as the most sustainable piece of clothing, most ethical piece of clothing, most environmentally friendly one. And I think way too often about microplastics. And when we look at a lot of the alternatives to wool or cashmere or silk or

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (48:44.878)
leather, it's almost always polyester. And the world does not need more microplastics. We're stuffed to the gills. Yeah. No, there's enough microplastics. And honestly, the way I view veganism, it's having the least amount of harm done. And if

a garment already exists, I'm not necessarily contributing to the creation of more of that specific garment, especially a vintage piece. if I have like, have one of my great aunt's Angora sweaters that I love so much. And that's like lasted for years and years and years. And so when I think about buying secondhand

products that are made with wool or leather. I'm thinking about it from a longevity perspective, which again, prevents me from buying more new items or even secondhand items in the future. And I think about the fact that it's not going to end up feeding fish in the oceans that are then going to end up in human bodies and lead to so many issues as a result of all of these microplastics that currently exist. Yeah. It's still.

perfectly good. So use what you have. And this is just how we all have to make individual choices in imperfect systems. I mean, I've been a vegetarian for 27 years now, I think. it's just, yeah, everything's like, well, I don't know, like should I, I've gone through periods where I've been vegan and then not and all of it. And it's just doing the best that you can, like with what you have and your circumstances and access and all of those things, because it can't be rigid.

Yeah. And so I think that's really important in how you communicate, how you navigate being vegan or zero waste or any of those things. It's just sort of like, you know, do your best. Yeah. And what your best means is going to be different for everybody and different at different points in your life. Yeah. I mean, I could talk to you about being plant-based for like another straight hour too. So maybe we'll have to do this again for another episode sometime. Just say one. Yeah.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (51:07.982)
Yes. So, as we just wrap up, I just want to zoom out for a minute because everything that we talked about today, whether it's about like clothing or community, like it really lives in our everyday lives. It's not about like a total overhaul, just noticing what you're doing and just making like small choices within that. So I always on the show with a segment I call one small shift. We're doing this one small shift at a time.

So if someone listening wants to try one small shift after this conversation about their wardrobe, something gentle and doable, what comes to mind for you? would say waiting a week before making any clothing, any new clothing purchase because so often we're driven by that sense of urgency that, well, if I don't buy this right now, then it's going to go away forever. And all of that is just marketing. Yeah. It's.

Oftentimes not like self driven. And what ends up happening is you end up with things that you don't necessarily want or you don't wear ever with those impulse purchases. And by adding some time and space to like properly think through whether or not you need a certain item. I think it makes it one so much more likely that you're going to buy something you actually wear. And if it ends up being something that you don't actually want, then you know, you saved money.

Yeah, but you mentioned saving stuff that you see. The perfect way for me to forget about something is for me to save it because I will never look at that folder again. Yeah. And if you come back six months later and you see a piece and you're like, actually, I really would love to have that in my wardrobe. Then you have given yourself six full months and that's excellent. I love that. Yeah.

There's that object permanency, right? Like this is about me visiting that skirt. I was like, maybe, Yeah. I'm still thinking about it. But again, I got to figure out what I'm actually, where I'm going, where I'm wearing this. Okay. So, but let's just do a little silly bonus round before we, before we're done. So who is your favorite drag queen right now? Bob the Drag Queen. I mean, I saw Bob the Drag Queen over the summer at a Pride book fair and

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (53:28.802)
We took a photo together, obviously I had inside my book. genuinely what a beacon of talent and comedy. Just I'm obsessed. Brilliant. Brilliant. I'm an always and forever, Alyssa Edwards, girly, but who I've also seen live and like my, I think my face still hurts from smiling, but I just wanted to give a quick shout out to Patty Gonia.

Love them. We love climate drag queen. check that out. Okay. This one is obviously regarding recent events. Where are you finding inspiration in New York City lately? Mom Donnie. Mom Donnie's election and also his wife Rama's.

outfits. I know we were talking about that over DMs. She reminds me a lot of you actually when I, that's why I just send you every picture. I know that you've seen it, but I'm just like, I just, I put you two in the same category. Thank you. It's the short hair and the love for vintage clothing, think, but that stepping into a new year and no longer having to deal with Eric Adams and having a mayor who hopefully, you know, make the city more affordable and just a better place to live feels very,

inspiring and also proves that like stuff that happens on the ground really does have an important impact and even sometimes more of a day to day impact than what happens on a federal level. And that's why we need to get involved in local politics. And I love that you use the word hopefully because hope, it sounds really trite, but I mean, we need it. Yeah. So

Yeah, let's just end on that. What helps remind you that this work really does hold joy? I mean, since we were just talking about it, I worked as an election worker this year. This is my second year doing it. And before we were even finished, like wrapping up and closing up the poll sites after, you know, polls had like technically closed. I found out that mom, Donnie was the projected winner and

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (55:45.87)
All of the canvassing, all of the content creation that we had done to go towards encouraging people to go vote was, oh my God, I started crying at the pool site. And it just felt like after hearing so much terrible, news for the last year, having some beacon of light felt really,

positive and encouraging. so, you know, I feel like things like that give me, you know, the motivation that I need to continue. Even if it feels small, we need everybody to participate as much as possible. What we do matters.

Yeah. So let's leave it there. Thank you so much for coming on and having this conversation with me. Oh my God. Of course. Feels like a PG 13 version. Yeah. I love you so much. Thank you, Savs. Me too. Of course. Thank you.

Sarah Robertson-Barnes (56:54.786)
Thank you so much to my friend, Sabs, for that thoughtful and generous conversation. If you'd like to explore more of her work, you can find her at Sustainablesabs.com and on Instagram and threads at Sustainablesabs. And she also writes a newsletter on Substack where she goes much deeper into many of the ideas that we talked about today. So I will make sure that all of those links are for you in the show notes.

If you've enjoyed today's episode, please make sure you're following Sustainable in the Suburbs wherever you get your podcast and share it with a friend who might appreciate a more grounded and realistic way of thinking about clothes and our consumption. You can find more practical everyday ideas over on the blog at sustainableinthesuburbs.com and sign up from the newsletter to get new episodes and reflections straight to your inbox. Until next time, start where you are.

Use what you have and live a little greener.

Thanks for tuning in to Sustainable in the Suburbs. Every small step adds up and I'm so glad we're doing this together. If you enjoyed this episode, please make sure to follow the show, share it with a friend and leave a review wherever you get your podcasts. You can find me at sustainableinthesuburbs.com or at Sarah Robertson Barnes on all the things. Until next time, start where you are, use what you have and live a little greener. This podcast is produced, mixed and edited by Cardinal Studio. For more information about how to start your own...

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